HELP! Disaster! How do filters stay in place?

Discussion in 'Filter Wheels' started by Walter Sullivan, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    Brand new SBIG STXL-11002 with FW8G-STXL. Put it together. Instructions say to insert filters before putting cover on. I put in 8 new Baader filters, attach the cover and BOOM, the filters fall out inside the case. It did not occur to me that there appears to be no way to keep them in place that is obvious and there was no mention in the instructions.

    1. How do the filters stay in place?

    2. How can I tell which filters are which? (Baader 50.4mm LRGBC and 3 Baader NB filters).

    What simple thing did I miss? Is there something that holds the filters in place that is supposed to be inside the filter box that is not there?

    I am sitting here with mixed up filters and I do not want to handle them. Please help ASAP.

    Thank you.


    Walter Sullivan
     
  2. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    It's odd that the manual doesn't say anything about it. It sort of assumes you know how to put the filters in.
    The filter carousels vary a bit over the years. The old ones had you installing screws through retaining shoulder washers for the filters, and the newer ones have you take the retaining plate off the top of the carousel to put the filters in eg make a filter sandwich. Eg on the STT see figure 3. https://www.sbig.com/site/assets/files/1414/stt_filterwheel_manual_080812.pdf On the STXL I have no idea - haven't played with one, but the docs don't say.
     
  3. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    Unbelievable that at these prices, no mention is made in the instructions. The instructions you gave me, as you know, is for the STT, and it talks about a "filter retainer plate" and "O-rings." No such items were included with the STLX. This is maddening. One presumes that if there were these parts, they would be in the instructions (though instructions are sometimes terrible). Since they are not included and not mentioned, I still have no idea how the filters are supposed to stay in place. I still think there must be a missing piece. I think I should send the filters back. They are fine, but mixed up. Don't you think SBIG should sort them out for me or give me a new set? They would not have gotten mixed up if not for their instructions or possible missing part.

    I have looked at other posts, but cannot find one noting this problem. I could not be the only one, unless a part, e.g. a filter retainer plate, is missing.

    Thanks for your input
     
  4. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Yes the documentation we inherited leaves something to be desired. We're slowly working away at updating them.

    The STT and STXL filter wheels are basically the same but different sizes; the STT instructions actually do describe how to install the filters, as follows:

    "3. Separate the filter retainer from the carousel by unscrewing the 8 Philips Flat Head screws that attach the filter retainer to the carousel. The filter retainer is the same size and shape as the carousel and simply attaches to the carousel over the filters to hold them in place. (Fig. 3)."
     
  5. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Its pretty simple to sort them out. Wash your hands thoroughly with soap, rinse thoroughly. You might use isopropyl alcohol to clean any greasiness off your fingers. Use a pair of lint-free cotton gloves (found at better photography stores) or KIMWIPES lint free tissues to handle them by the edges. Typically the more reflective side of the filter goes toward the scope. Color-wise, hold them up to a bright light source. You'll get a sense of what they pass. The narrow band ones - not sure if you have the Hubble palette there, but OIII green, Ha Red, then SII darkest red. The RGB ones will be easy. The L vs C will seem very similar, but you'll probably see the coating if you tilt it, and that'll be the L.
     
  6. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    Doug:

    Unfortunately, I did not purchase a STT. Clearly, this was not stated in the STXL instructions. I will try to figure out this out based on what you said (but did not say in the instructions). Due to this error in the instructions, I want to send the filters back and get new ones so I know whicht filter is which. They never would have gotten mixed up if the instructions had not left out a crucial part. Please send me instructions on where to send the filters.

    Thank you.

    Walter
     
  7. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    See response above, THEN: Guess What? There is NO FILTER RETAINER. Was there supposed to be one? I have to think so, since you referred me to the STT instructions that has one. All one can see is the gear chain, the slots for the filters and 16 tiny holes.

    What the story? What is going on? Did I get sent a filter wheel without a crucial part? On another site, someone is telling me that I am supposed to put a screw driver in these tiny tiny holes to probably push the circumference of the slot onto the side of the filter to hold it. Could you please ask someone who knows about the STXL what is going on? If this is the case, I can't do this at this time since I do not know which filter is which. Other sites say I can only identify the RGB, forget about the Narrow Band and good luck with UV/IR. I want a new set or someone knowledgeable needs to sort them out and send them back to me, assuming you can tell me how to keep them in.

    I am a little angry about this. I am a beginner, I have never taken a photo before, I go to the best company, get the best equipment, get inadequate instructions leaving out a crucial detail and now I am left with a mess involving very expensive filters that came from you. Please fix this mess. Assuming you can tell me how to do this, I need to know which filters are which.

    Please help. I deserve it.
     
  8. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Could you pease post a picture of the inside of your wheel.
     
  9. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    Doug:

    I've cooled down a little bit. It's just a big investment. I'm big on following instructions and expect them to be correct and complete. I know the filter wheel problem will be solved, just upset about the filter mix-up. Attached is a photo of what you see when the back cover is removed. Difficult to see, but, there are the 16 tiny holes, two next to each filter slot that someone on another site told me have screws that will push against the filter to hold them in place. However, 1. The filters are not arranged in order. I just put them in slots for safety sake, so no sense in trying to keep them there until I know which ones they are and 2. After getting filters labelled as to kind, I need to have this method confirmed and know what kind of tiny screwdriver to use (?Hex, ?Phillips).

    Thanks for your help.

    Walter
     
  10. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    I uploaded the photo as a file, but do not see it on my post.
     
  11. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    I've checked and the FW8G-STXL uses screws and special washers to hold in the filters. They should have been included with your kit.
     
  12. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Could you please provide the serial number for the filter wheel? I'm assuming you bought through a dealer since you aren't showing in our database as owning a filter wheel. If the dealer got it as part of a package (camera + wheel etc.) we put the parts for the filter wheel in the camera case so they don't get lost. It's possible the dealer split up the package and that's why you didn't get them. We can check on that if we know the serial number.
     
  13. Tim Puckett

    Tim Puckett Guest

  14. Walter Sullivan

    Walter Sullivan Cyanogen Customer

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    Doug:

    Had a Skype conversation with Kim Puckett. Extremely helpful. Tell me that the more shiny side goes toward the stars, which coincides with the point of the V. So the V points to the telescope. Nice guy, eager to help.

    Still having trouble posting a photo, no "Full Image" or Thumbnail seen. However, not a problem. No big deal now. Later if I have something to to show, hopefully, it will work.

    Getting lots of help. Gratifying.
     
  15. Tim Puckett

    Tim Puckett Guest

    Hi Walter,

    We are sending your items and they will be there before Monday.
    It was good to have a Skype video conference with you.

    Ring me anytime if we can help.
    Cheers
    Tim
     
  16. Kim

    Kim Standard User

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    I would be interested in what conclusions were reached regarding the screws and washers for the FW8G-STXL filter wheel that I am currently in the process of attaching to my SBIG STXL 6303 (all purchased through Optcorp). My filter wheel will be full, I have five UBVRI filters from Custom Scientific, and three narrowband filters (Halpha, SII, OIII) from Astrodon. The filters are all round and 50 mm diameter. The UBVRI filters are all the same thickness, about 4 mm. The narrowband filters are 3 mm thick. When I place down the filters in their slots, there is about a 0.5 mm gap along the circumference, and that's if I manage to get it exactly in the center. I think that if I place the screws and washers incorrectly, then they will be so tall that they touch the blue plastic loop as it rotates. Any insight to share regarding thick filters like mine and what to do in the intersection between filters of different thicknesses?
     
  17. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    We recently added little washer-sized O-rings to the parts kit. You can put these on the step washers to better hold filters that are too thin or of varying thickness.

    If your wheel didn't come with the O-rings, please provide your full name and address and Carla will mail you some.
     

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