PHD2 not able to connect to OAG camera

Discussion in 'Aluma CCD Series' started by Kalpesh Jasapara, May 25, 2023.

  1. Kalpesh Jasapara

    Kalpesh Jasapara Cyanogen Customer

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    Hello,

    I have Aluma 8300M with FW8G-Aluma (FW + OAG) - Firmware Rev 27, updated.
    Have installed the latest DLAPI and DL Imaging Driver 6.4.22.0, the following is on both Windows 10 22H2 (duly updated) and Windows 11 22H2 with all the latest updates.

    Working:
    1. I have tested with MaximDL and I am able to connect, basically Camera 1, Guider camera 2 and FW8G filterwheel. DL Config verifies the same, observed that they are mutually exclusive, in that when Maxim is connected DL Config cannot connect to camera and vice versa.

    Trying to use Aluma 8300 with NINA, it (NINA) connects to DL Imaging Camera 1 and Filter wheel just fine with the ASCOM DL Imaging and ASCOM DL Imaging FW. This is in 64 bit mode, I am yet to take images but daytime flats are good.

    As you are aware, NINA uses PHD2 (2.6.11) for guiding and I am trying to configure PHD2 to connect to the OAG camera using the ASCOM DL Imaging Camera 2. It does not work with 64 bit, however it (PHD2) is able to connect to the ASCOM DLImaging Camera 2 with the 32 bit DL Imaging Camera driver 6.4.22.

    Not Working
    When the DL Imaging camera 1 is connected in NINA, along with the DL Imaging Filter wheel -- PHD2 is not able to connect to the DL Imaging Camera 2 (tested both 32bit and 64bit)

    Just wondering if anybody else in the forum has tested Aluma "dual chip" with NINA, to successfully guide with PHD2 ?

    @Doug , @Colin Haig
    Is this a supported configuration, if it is I can continue to debug my setup and perhaps see some light.
    If this is not yet supported configuration, it would be good to know and look for alternative.

    with regards,
    -Kalpesh
     
  2. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    I'm glad to hear that worked out.

    Since the Aluma CCD has 1 brain and 2 eyeballs (main sensor, external guide sensor in the FW8G), control is done by the camera brain.
    The driver is not a "camera server". It provides access to MaxIm or DL Config, not both, as they both need access to the brain and both eyes. So this is normal.

    Actually, am not a NINA expert, so am not sure on the limitations of that program.
    One thing I do know is that (historically) PHD2 had an inability to set the properties of ASCOM cameras or to access traditional ASCOM Chooser settings.

    So, here's a workaround:
    Use ASCOM Diagnostics - Choose Device - Choose and Connect to device (either 32-bit or 64-bit).
    then select DL ASCOM Camera 1 and set it's properties, and test the connection is going to the main sensor (uncheck the External sensor option).
    Next, repeat this for DL ASCOM Camera 2, and set it's properties WITH the External sensor option checked.
    Test the connection.

    So this will establish the default:
    ASCOM DL Imaging Camera 1 = KAF-8300 main sensor
    ASCOM DL Imaging Camera 2 = EXT Sensor (KAI-0340 in the self-guiding filter wheel)
    You may have to repeat this for the 64bit / 32bit but I don't think you have to.
    Then try connecting PHD2.

    Try the workaround and report back.

    Someone mentioned that NINA has a "server" option that might be able to be used with guiding. I don't know much about that.
     
  3. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Also, what version of N.I.N.A. exactly do you have?
     
  4. Kalpesh Jasapara

    Kalpesh Jasapara Cyanogen Customer

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    Hello Collin,

    First of all, I have the latest version of NINA 2.2.0.9001 ( corresponding x86 version for 32bit).
    Secondly, you are right the "server" option in PHD2 has to be enabled for NINA to talk to PHD2 for guiding commands and status, however that is way after the camera connections are setup.

    Here are the various tests that I have performed to verify the connections.

    1. MaximDL - C1 / C2 (Dual Chip Mode) / DLI+FW -- all three works fine.
    2. TSX -- DLIC1 / DLIC2 / DLIFW -- all three works fine
    3. NINA -- DLIC1 / DLIFW -- both work fine, 32bit and 64 bit.
    4. PHD2 -- Can connect individually to DLIC1 and DLIC2
    4'. PHD2 -- cannot connect to DLIC1 or DLIC2 in 64bit mode, unless 32bit DL Imaging driver is installed.

    ( The following tests had both the DLAPI, DLI 32bit and DLI 64bit ASCOM drivers installed)

    5. NINA 32bit -- DLIC1 connected, PHD2 fails to connect to DLIC2 (32bit)
    5'. NINA 32bit -- DLIC1/DLIFW connected, PHD2 fails to connect to DLIC2 (32bit)
    6. NINA 64bit -- DLIC1 connected, PHD2 fails to connect to DLIC2 (32bit)
    6'. NINA 64bit -- DLIC1/DLIFW connected, PHD2 fails to connect to DLIC2 (32bit)

    7. PHD2 DLIC2 connected (32bit), NINA fails to connect to DLIC1 or DLIFW (both in 32bit or 64bit NINA).

    8. TSX -- DLIC1 connected, DLIFWconnected -- NINA fails to connect to DLIC2
    9. TSX -- DLIC1 connected, DLIFW connected -- PHD2 fails to connect to DLIC2
    10. TSX -- DLIC2 connected (guiding camera) -- NINA fails to connect to DLIC1 (main camera)

    DLIC1 -- ASCOM DL Imaging Camera1 -- main camera Aluma 8300
    DLIC2 -- ASCOM DL Imaging Camera2 (OAG from FW8G-Aluma)
    DLIFW -- ASCOM DL Imaging FilterWheel
    TSX -- TheSkyX (above tested only with TSX 64 Professional version latest). Version 10.5.0 Build 13479.
    PHD2 -- 2.6.11
    NINA -- version 2.2.0.9001

    It appears two different applications PHD2 + NINA cannot connect to the different cameras of DLI at the same time, just like I could not do that with TSX + NINA or TSX + PHD2.
    Do tell me if you need me to run any further tests or provide additional logs.

    with regards,
    -Kalpesh
     
  5. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Thanks. That is sufficient.
    Would it be fair to summarize this as "two separate programs can't share access to a physical camera that just happens to have an external sensor." ?
     
  6. Kalpesh Jasapara

    Kalpesh Jasapara Cyanogen Customer

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    Hello Colin,

    Thanks for your reply.
    Yes, that pretty much sums it up and the actual reason behind me hinting at the mutual exclusion in the earlier messages.

    Just hopeful that perhaps it is in the design to export the two ASCOM camera devices are truly independent of each other, or maybe in the future NINA integrates guiding like TSX does or something else. do kindly drop a hint if you are aware of any solutions in the making.

    Regards,
    -Kalpesh
     
  7. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    We can't make them truly independent for the self-guiding filter wheel cameras, as the guide sensor is fully dependent on the main camera. It would require a big software rewrite and possibly new firmware, and is not in the present plan.

    When we introduced the SBIG StarChaser SC-2 and SC-3 off-axis guide cameras, they were designed as truly independent standalone cameras (not just a pick off mirror and sensor tied to the main camera), so it is a non-issue for them.
     

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