STXL-11002 chip problem?

Discussion in 'STX and STXL Series Cameras' started by Brian Peterson, Jan 26, 2025.

  1. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    Recently my camera has developed an odd defect along the top -- a very thin triangle extending across the top of the chip. It is visible on light frames and flats. The attached image was taken with the camera off the telescope and it shows the same pattern.
    Does anyone know what causes this? Any fix to it?

    Brian
     

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  2. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    That looks optical. Check the filter wheel and shutter.
     
  3. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    That's what I thought at first too. So I took the camera off the scope, had the filter wheel change filters a few times, took a few images and watched the shutter-- nothing looks like it is blocking the chip.
     
  4. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    It's pretty much impossible to get a diagonal line due to a problem with a CCD sensor. They read out on a grid after all.

    Watch the operation of the shutter while imaging - can you see anything odd happening?
     
  5. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    I took the filter wheel off and tried again, just to eliminate the FW as a possible source. It looks the same to me. I've attached another image chip test #3.jpg
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    How are you illuminating the camera? There's a shadow in the right, and a bright diagonal line at the top.
     
  7. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    For this last one I just had it pointed at the ceiling. Maybe that wasn't as flat as I thought. The first one was pointed at the twilight sky.
    I usually take flats against a light panel. And, as I said at the start of this, I noticed this bright diagonal on both flats and lights taken over the
    past couple of weeks, but not before that (I've had the camera for several years).
     
  8. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    What optics were in front of the camera, if any?
     
  9. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    For the ones that I posted here, no optics at all.
    For the imaging that I was doing when I noticed this, I had the camera on a Takahashi FSQ 106-N.
     
  10. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    You can get weird shadows if there are no optics on the camera. At least put a piece of white printer paper in front of the aperture, and shoot through that. It will diffuse the light. Adjust the exposure accordingly.

    One other thing to check - do you have RBI mode enabled?
     
  11. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    I've attached an image taken without any optics but with a sheet of paper to diffuse the light. The same narrow diagonal of light is at the top.

    I've used this camera for years and this only started showing up a couple of months ago. It is there attached to a scope and not. It is there
    on long-exposure light frames and on short-exposure flat frames. It is there whether I'm shooting through a filter or not, and there both with
    and without the filter wheel attached to the camera. I don't see any obvious cracks or gaps in the camera body.
    Other ideas?

    I didn't know that the STXL-11002 has an RBI mode available. It if does, I've never used it.
    I've never noticed any problems with RBI.

    Thanks again for your help.
     

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  12. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Just jumping in here - can you take a FITS image and send that ? If it is too big, please use Dropbox or WeTransfer.
     
  13. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    Here's the FITS version.
     

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  14. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Can you upload a dark frame, same exposure conditions?
     
  15. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    Here's a dark frame.
     

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  16. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    A light leak could do this, but it would have to be in front of the shutter. Otherwise it would show up in dark frames.

    The RBI mitigation feature is not necessary for the KAI-11002 sensor, but like all other STXL models the camera includes the infrared LEDs. If there was a circuit failure that caused one of the LEDs to turn on slightly, it might partially illuminate the sensor. That might be the source of the bright bar, but it is just a guess. The problem with this hypothesis is that it doesn't explain why the problem occurs only on light frames, not dark frames. The LEDs are behind the shutter.

    The only other thing I can conceive of is an electrical failure that destabilizes the analog power supplies when the various clocking pulses occur... but I'm hard-pressed to explain the pattern being produced. Also it doesn't happen on dark frames, so I think that rules out this theory.

    It really looks optical to me - some kind of light leak.

    If you can put together a simple test rig, you might be able to prove/disprove the light leak theory. Get a foot long PVC tube large enough to sit on top of the adapter plate. Put a couple of layers of white printer paper on the top end, to provide a diffuse light source (just using room illumination). Wrap the bottom part of the PVC tube and the entire camera in an opaque black cloth so no light can leak into the camera. Leave the cooler off so it doesn't get hot. (Don't leave it like this for a very long time - it might eventually overheat the camera.)

    Take light and dark frames. If there's a light leak this should eliminate it. Then you can fiddle about to figure out where the leak is.

    If you still see the pattern, try blocking the top of the PVC tube so there's no light and take another light frame.

    If none of this pans out, I can only suggest sending in the camera for service.
     
  17. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Brian - Doug has given some good advice.
    I've been following this, and the dark looks perfect.

    I'd try his test as a next step.

    What's the serial number of the camera and filter wheel?

    It really does look optical - like an edge of something is in the light path - eg filter slot misalignment, shutter misalignment or timing problem, some optical oddity like something in the light path or a light leak.

    Here's another line of thinking:
    An exposure time of 0.002s is very short - the spec for a new camera was 0.001s, so this is close to the minimum. Does it show up in longer exposures like 10s (with less light getting to the camera?)
    Am wondering if there is a timing problem.

    Could you check the SBIG Driver Checker is version 4.05? (Use the About/Help button), and then on the Firmware tab, check if the camera firmware is current?

    Just for the heck of it, could you try testing the camera with CCDOps or MaxIm?
    I'm wondering if there is some oddball software issue where its shooting the image before the filter wheel is in position, or some firmware discrepancy.

    I noticed you're running TheSky X, and there's a newer daily build than the one you have. (current is 10.5.0 13878)

    Have you taken a photo using a cellphone down the nose of the camera while doing a long exposure (eg enough time for you to take a picture) ? Am wondering if you see anything not in the correct position.
    Am wondering if the drive belt for the shutter or filter wheel is worn out.
     
  18. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    Responding to Doug's suggestions:

    With camera wrapped and a tube & paper to provide diffuse light, the pattern was still there. I think that means the problem is not a light leak.
    The dark frame with camera wrapped doesn't show any pattern, which I guess means nothing odd is happening behind the shutter - but I think we already knew that.
    The light frame with the camera capped did NOT show the pattern, which means....well, I don't know what it means. Maybe that nothing odd is happening in reading the light frame - it would seem to suggest that it is a reflection from something. but the pattern has shown up through a telescope, and off the telescope; it has shown up with the filter wheel attached and without the filter wheel. It has shown up in sub-second exposures flat frames and in 15-minute light frames. I've taken the cover off the camera to look at the chip and the glass cover in front of the chip, and nothing looks out of place there. I'm not sure what that leaves.
     

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  19. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Let's rule out the IR preflash diodes. You can't see them with your eye, of course, because you can't see IR. But a camera can.

    Open the shutter (e.g. long exposure) and point a phone camera into the aperture. See if there's a glow coming from one of the sides or corners just outside the sensor.

    Also please visually check whether the shutter is operating normally - fully open when open, fully closes when closed.
     
  20. Brian Peterson

    Brian Peterson Cyanogen Customer

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    Responding to Colin:

    Camera serial # is X13010174
    FW # is X517050001

    I don't think it has anything to do with the filter wheel or filters. Remember, this pattern shows up both when the FW is attached and when it is removed.
    These testing exposures have been short, but remember that this first became visible in 15-minute light frames.

    I've attached a photo of the camera with the cover off and the chip "exposed." I don't see anything amiss.

    I took a light image through MaximDL -- same pattern shows up.

    The drivers already loaded date from 2022. I updated them about a year ago when I was trying to get this camera to work with the NINA software (but failed in that attempt; it seems that NINA doesn't know how to talk to this model. I ran SBIG Driver checker but gave me an error message - the file it was trying to copy was being used by another program, but I didn't have any other programs running.
    The Driver Checker did say there was a more recent Firmware update, but it also gave me an ominous warning not to do this unless explicitly told to do so. Now that I think about it, I guess I should have gone ahead with that, but I didn't. I'll go back and do that if you want me to.

    Again, thanks.
     

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