AC4040 - Rectangular gradients

Discussion in 'Aluma AC Series CMOS' started by Neil M Robertson, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    I am getting rectangular gradients appearing in different locations depending on filter selected. s this a filter defect?
     

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  2. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Please post a FITS frame. It's really hard to tell anything from a screen shot.
     
  3. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    Here is the fits file.
     

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  4. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    We need RAW data straight from the camera - not heavily processed like that.
     
  5. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    Doug, Here are a couple of files pre processing.
     

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  6. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    These sensors do tend to have some vertical/horizontal structure in calibration frames. That does not look particularly unusual.
     
  7. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    Doug,
    The vertical structure in the center is coming from the dark current. I believe the structures to the top and the sides are coming from the filters since if you rotate the filter they move by the corresponding amount.
     
  8. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    How are you illuminating the camera? Is that through the telescope?
     
  9. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    Yes through the telescope. I have a electroluminescent panel for my flat frames. The pictures I am taking have the same issues unless I take a picture with the filter empty. I bought all this equipment from you guys in December 2o21. Not managed to get an image yet. I have read lots of info on CMOS chips. I have the IMX571 Back-Illuminated CMOS chip on another camera which is awesome but seem to be hitting a brick wall with this new AC4040 on the calibration frames. I really need some help.Here is a dark frame and you can see that it has that vertical line up the middle which is in the frames I sent you earlier.
     

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  10. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Yes that is common for 4040 dark frames.

    I strongly recommend using the Stack Pro High gain mode with this camera. You should be able to take 5-10 minute single exposures and get good results.

    As for the flats, are you saying the position of the vertical stripes depend on the filter selection? Does that show up in your final images after calibration? Try aiming for a target brightness that is in the mid-range for the sensor. In single exposure mode that is around 2048 ADU.
     
  11. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    Doug,

    Thanks. Should the target be the same regardless of binning?
     
  12. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Binning basically averages four pixel values, so it should be the same.

    Obviously on longer exposures with StackPro the target would be higher.

    I don't think the rectangular shape of the pattern has anything to do with the filter wheel. It's too perfectly vertical to be optical. It's not uncommon for sensors (CMOS or CCD) to have differences in flat-field response across the spectrum - it's part of the reason we do flats for each color. Screen stretch on the flats really exaggerates the effect.
     
  13. Travis Deyoe

    Travis Deyoe Cyanogen Customer

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    I'm having a similar problem. I've taken a large series of 120s images of M57 in StackPro. I've then got a series of 120s darks in StackPro. We have a panel Neil (though a very large one for the 32" we operate). I took 15 flats, 2s each in low gain mode and then a big round of 100 2s darks (also in low gain). Calibrating through and stacking that square pattern is still present in the final image (in single calibrated images it's almost undetectable but in stacks it obvious). I used both Maxim DL and Pixinsight for the calibration and came to the same result. I'm unsure where the problem is...
     
  14. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Hmm... does it happen with specific filters?
     
  15. Travis Deyoe

    Travis Deyoe Cyanogen Customer

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    I was trying to eliminate variables and was mostly testing the red filter (filter was purchased from you). I can confirm whether the effect is there in blue and green.
     
  16. Travis Deyoe

    Travis Deyoe Cyanogen Customer

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    I can confirm that is it there in Blue and Green as well. They were the same exposure (120s) and flatted with their own flats (also 2s)
     
  17. Neil M Robertson

    Neil M Robertson Cyanogen Customer

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    I eventually got to the problem issue. I had purchased the filters from diffraction and there was a coating problem with the filters. I purchased chroma filters and the problem went away.
     
  18. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    We had a problem with one of our suppliers - a small number of filters had coating problems, which weren't apparent until they were used. It would be very surprising though if all three of them had the same issue! Do you also have narrowband filters?
     
  19. Mark Manner

    Mark Manner Cyanogen Customer

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    Hi, I have a less obvious middle line in my master flats too, and the obvious quadrant pattern in my darks, but I'm not seeing it in the master light frames after calibration. I've assumed that the issue in the flats and the quadrant pattern in the dark are inherent in the CMOS chip, and as Doug said is part of the reason we do calibration of light frames. The only time I see anything like that in my calibrated light frames is when I've taken a light frame at too short an exposure for the target. In that case, the SNR in the light frame is so low that the artifacts don't calibrate out perfectly. I see this if I take a too short exposure in High mode or using a too short subexposure time in HSP (for example a 1 minute HSP image with 2-4 sec subexposures). I don't see it when, for example, I take a 1 minute HSP with 30 sec subexposures. The issue might appear even with 30 sec HSP subexposures too if the target if faint, but if you think about what subexposure time makes sense for a target with a particular signal strength, I think the issue can be managed. To me, this is just part of the learning curve with the CMOS chips. I'm so burned in (no pun intended) on CCDs that it has been an interesting journey.

    I hope this is of some help.

    Best,
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  20. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    You will see the quadrants in dark frames. Subtracting darks and using a large dither amplitude during acquisition mitigates the quadrant effect.
     

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