SBIG STX RANDOM BAD IMAGE

Discussion in 'STX and STXL Series Cameras' started by Jim Gillard, May 6, 2022.

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  1. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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    I am using a STX-16803 camera with remote guide head using TheSkyX pro with it’s camera control. Using the main CCD chip, randomly when an image is downloaded the image will be faded. Nothing changes in between downloads other than just being another image and there doesn't seem to be any pattern. Don’t matter what binning or filter. This started some time ago and may have been after a end of 2020 firmware update. This also has nothing to do with clouds as the two images below were take shortly apart on a very clear night. I would say about 1/3 of the images are bad, again randomly.


    Good:
    upload_2022-5-6_8-39-9.png

    Bad:
    upload_2022-5-6_8-40-16.png

    Here are my setup details.
    Camera: STX 16803 S/N: X13030189 Firmware: late 2020
    Filter Wheel: FW5 S/N: 1301
    Imaging Software: TheSky X Pro 32bit current version
    Computer: Windows 10
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Definitely not firmware related.

    There's a bit of a shadow across the top of the image... I'm thinking maybe the shutter is sticking.

    I'd recommend taking the camera off the telescope, running a series of short exposures, and watch the shutter operating. See if it sometimes sticks.

    Also make sure the mounting screws up front aren't too long - if they touch the shutter it will cause this sort of problem.
     
  3. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Jim,
    We will need very specific info.
    Launch the SBIG Driver Checker. Click About. Is it version 4.05 Build 0 ? If not, you need to update.
    Look at the versions of the drivers as shown below:
    sbig_driver_checker_405_5110.png
    Does yours match exactly ?
    If not, update.

    Go to the Firmware tab. Check that the firmware is current.

    In TheSkyX 32bit, Help... About. What exact version?
    The latest release is TheSkyX Version 10.5.0 Build 13311

    Have you tested the camera with CCDOps 5.66 to eliminate TheSkyX as a possibility?

    Do you have some sample FITS images - we can't tell much from the screen shots.
     
  4. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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    Since this a relatively new issue I’ll presume the screw length is fine. If it is a sticky shutter what are my options to fix it?

    Thanks,
    Jim
     
  5. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    These shutters are most definitely NOT user-serviceable. The only option would be to send the camera in to Bill for service.

    It is a good idea to make sure you have the current firmware. A while back (couple of years?) we changed the firmware slightly to increase the power delivered to the shutter motor.
     
  6. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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    Doug,
    I tested the camera trying various lengths of exposures and tried it 20+ times. The shutter opened completely every time. I went back to the actual downloaded pictures, those that are muted do not have a gradient, the entire image has pixel values that are lower than the good pictures. The only thing way the shutter could cause the issue would be it would be if it closed way before the length of the exposure. Anything else to try?

    By the way, is there a place to upload image files to they can be looked at in original form?
     
  7. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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  8. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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    Colin,

    Yes I did confirm the SBIG Driver Checker's version was 4.05 Build 0. I also checked the versions and dates of all the drivers and they are match exactly.
    I checked the camera's firmware and it stated it was up to date.
    TheSkyX version is: 10.5.0 Build 13311
    I haven't tried any other image control software at this time.
    I can upload a good and bad images but where should I do that?

    Jim
     
  9. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Please use Dropbox or similar.
     
  10. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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    I was able to spend more time looking at this bad image issue. Here is what I learned today. It looks like when I am taking 300 seconds images at -30 temp, that every 3rd image is muted. The reason why I thought this error was random was that I was looking at each group of images by filter. Once I put them together by datetime then I noticed it was every 3rd.

    All the bench testing I did to recreate a shutter issue were using short exposures. One thing I noticed after looking at the flats I took recently was all were okay until the Blue filter flats. That filter was set to 180 second exposures and the muting was present. The other filters were only a few seconds long and showed no muting.

    I will continue to test with longer exposures with temp set to see if the shutter is the issue.

    Here is a link to a number of images, both good and bad showing the every 3rd pattern by date and time:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MP322uohFcr4NHf3IlEvIyITdSudGfVs?usp=sharing

    Jim
     
  11. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Jim, also check that the power LEDs on the side of the STX have the Green LED "power good" light on, not the orange/yellow ones.
     
  12. Doug

    Doug Staff Member

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    Okay I finally got your images. It's pretty strange - the exposure times are definitely the same since the hot pixels match in intensity. But there's clearly less sky exposure time on the dim ones.

    It doesn't look like a shutter issue. There are no shadows across the image or other indication that the shutter failed to actuate properly. The objects are simply much, much fainter. As in almost exactly 40 times fainter - I figured this out by scaling the images and subtracting.

    I'd suggest trying to take some images with CCDOPS or MaxIm DL, to see if it behaves the same way.
     
  13. Josef Poepsel

    Josef Poepsel Cyanogen Customer

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    Hi there!
    Since I am running into exactly the same problem I would like to know whether it was ever fixed?!
    For me it looks like the shutter is closing during the exposure "by exident".
    BTW.: I can not update to the current driver, since vor versions >4.99 of the driver DLL MaximDL refuses a conection to the STX 16803 with an FW5-STX attached (which took me two days to figue out...)
    Thanx in advance
    Josef
    www.capella-observatory.com
     
  14. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Hi Josef,
    Some suggestions:
    - Replace any suspected bad cables - e.g. between filter wheel, STX guider and camera; USB cable to computer.
    This is incredibly common - oxidation happens on connectors that are outside.
    Sometimes simply powering it all off, removing and replacing is all it takes.

    - Driver update - make sure you have SBIG Driver Checker 4.05 and it shows SBIGUDRV.DLL 5.1.1.0
    Check SBIG Driver Checker is version 4.05 (run it, and press the [About/Help] button).
    You can get it here:
    https://cdn.diffractionlimited.com/downloads/SetupDriverChecker64.exe
    sbig_driver_checker_405_5110.png

    - Firmware update - use the Firmware tab in the Driver Checker.

    - Software Update - make sure you have the latest from Software Bisque and us.
    -- if you are using 32-bit TSX, the 5.1.1.0 driver will be used.
    -- if you are using 64-bit TSX, they install a 64-bit version 4.9.9.8 (likely) which we provided to them at some point.
    We also have a 5.0.2 version of the 64-bit driver, here:
    https://diffractionlimited.com/legacy-product-support/

    - Check Windows power management - USB Selective Suspend per this article:
    https://forum.diffractionlimited.co...connects-turn-off-usb-selective-suspend.7848/

    - Check Windows for OS corruption, per this article:
    https://forum.diffractionlimited.com/threads/windows-10-tune-up-fixing-pc-issues.8196/
    and runtimes:
    https://forum.diffractionlimited.co...talling-microsoft-visual-studio-runtime.9001/

    Make sure to power off and disconnect the camera before changing cables.

    Beyond that, it could be a hardware issue, and we can discuss further.
     
  15. Josef Poepsel

    Josef Poepsel Cyanogen Customer

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    Hi again!

    Thank you for your fast replay.
    No, updating to the current version is defenitely not a good idea for this special STX-16803 FW5-STX combination since it does not work together with MaximDL. I did it 3 days ago (assuming it solves ths images get dim problem) and it took me two days to get the filterwheel (wich worked before the update) to run again. The solution (downgrade to V 4.99 of the driver DLL) was sugested elsewhere in this forum by one of your colleges (or even you)...
    USB download problems can not be the cause of this problem since the darkened images contain information (dark current, as expected for 5 min subframes, but much shorter light exposures - exactly as described in this thread).
    Since the system is used remotely, I can not simply go there and verify my assumption, that the shutter closes "exidently" during some exposures, but I think it is most likely. A good indicator may also be, that the guide chip only returns noise from one moment to the other in the middle of the expsure for this dimmed images. And no, it is not a mount problem. Starting the next subframe the guide star is exactly, where it was before the guide image got black).
    Jim, how did you fix the problem?

    CS

    Josef
     
  16. Jim Gillard

    Jim Gillard Standard User

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    Doug,

    I have not had a chance to try other imaging products but the fact that Josef who is using Maxim DL is having the same issue, would answer that question.

    Again any other things to try? It does seem like this started after one of the camera updates. Let me spend some time to go back and see if I can see when it started. We are having a house built so my equipment is in storage now until the end of this year. So you know.

    Jim
     
  17. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Josef -what version of MaxIm are you running?
     
  18. Josef Poepsel

    Josef Poepsel Cyanogen Customer

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  19. Colin Haig

    Colin Haig Staff Member

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    Please upgrade.
     
  20. Josef Poepsel

    Josef Poepsel Cyanogen Customer

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    Sure this will help? Can you send me an offer by mail? The Update period is expired (6.21 is the maximum I can get with the current license)
     
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